CANDY MAGAZINE – WINTER 2013 – RICK AND MICHELE
– BY DAN THAWLEY
A DECADE AGO, BOURGEOIS CRIES OF “THERE GOES THE NEIGHBORHOOD!” MAY WELL HAVE BEEN HEARD IN THE STREETS OF PARIS AS THE CALIFORNIAN DESIGNER RICK OWENS AND HIS WIFE MICHÈLE LAMY INSTALLED THEMSELVES IN PLACE DU PALAIS BOURBON. THEIR HOME IS NOTHING LIKE THE COOKIE-CUTTER HAUSSMANN FACSIMILES EITHER SIDE. IT IS FILLED WITH CONTEMPORARY ART, BRUTALIST FURNITURE AND SENSUAL MURALS BY MICHÈLE‘S DAUGHTER SCARLETT. WHAT IS APPARENT IN THE SPACE IS THE BEAUTY OF CONTRAST — CONCRETE, MINK, EBONY, STEEL — AND (AS WITH THE TWO OF THEM) THE INESCAPABLE MAGNETISM OF OPPOSITES. TODAY, THEIR LIVES ARE A TAPESTRY OF FAMILY, FRIENDS, ARTISTS, MUSICIANS AND WAYWARD SOULS, ALL OF WHOSE PATHS ARE INTERTWINED BY SO MUCH MORE THAN FASHION. THEY ARE A TRIBE OF CREATIVE MINDS SPREAD FROM LA TO DUBAI. IT WAS AT A RECENT LONDON SHOWING OF THE DUO’S MONUMENTAL FURNITURE RANGE (WHICH IS CRAFTED FROM OX BONE AND PETRIFIED WOOD) THAT I FIRST APPROACHED MICHÈLE ABOUT THIS ARTICLE. FROM BENEATH HER VEILED STEPHEN JONES TOP HAT, SHE IMMEDIATELY EXCLAIMED, “YES! WE BOTH HAVE TO DO IT BECAUSE WE HAVE REALLY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.” WEEKS LATER, OVER SUNDAY BRUNCH, I CAME TO UNDERSTAND HER POINT.
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DAN THAWLEY. RICK, WHO IS THE FIRST PERSON THAT YOU MADE A PIECE OF CLOTHING FOR? .
RICK OWENS. I THINK IT WAS ABOUT ME, WHEN I STARTED. I DOUBT THAT IT WAS ABOUT ANYONE ELSE OR SOMEBODY ELSE. IT WAS ALWAYS ABOUT EXPRESSING ‘ME’. PROBABLY... YOU SHOULD KNOW I’M VERY SELFISH! I’M THE FIRST TO ADMIT IT.
DT. HOW DID YOU DRESS BEFORE YOU MADE YOUR OWN CLOTHES? .
RO. IN ARMY SURPLUS CLOTHES, WHICH I DYED IN BLACK. THERE WERE ALL THESE NEW WAVE THINGS GOING ON IN LOS ANGELES FASHION. YOUNG FASHION WAS VERY BIG AND THRIFT STORES WERE VERY BIG SO IT WAS VERY EASY TO FIND BLACK STUFF EVERYWHERE.
DT. AND HOW DID YOU BOTH END UP IN LA? .
RO. I MOVED FROM PORTERVILLE, WHICH IS A SMALL AGRICULTURAL TOWN ABOUT TWO HOURS AWAY FROM LA. MICHÈLE LAMY. I CAME TO LA FROM NEW YORK IN ’79, NEVER HAVING BEEN THERE. I JUST KNEW I WANTED TO MOVE THERE. I WAS DOING ADVERTISING AND EDITORIAL FOR DIFFERENT MAGAZINES, CALLED SLASH, STUFF AND WET.
DT. DO YOU STILL HAVE THEM? .
RO. NO, I DON’T HAVE ANY OF THEM. THERE WERE KIND OF PUNK ROCK FREE ZINES, BUT THEY WERE A LITTLE BIT FANCIER BECAUSE THEY DID ADVERTISING FOR SOME OF THE FANCY PLACES IN TOWN, SO THEY WERE VERY COOL. THEY WERE LIKE INTERVIEW MAGAZINE BUT AT THE BEGINNING.
ML. I WAS PART OF THIS THING, AND SO BEFORE WE KNEW EACH OTHER, HE KNEW ABOUT ME.
RO. WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL, I WOULD GO TO VISALIA, WHICH WAS A COOL TOWN CLOSE TO OUR TOWN, AND I’D BUY WET MAGAZINE AND I SAW ARTICLES AND PICTURES OF MICHÈLE.
ML. I WAS EVEN WRITING A LITTLE BIT FOR STUFF !
RO. WE DIDN’T GET STUFF. WE WEREN’T COOL ENOUGH FOR STUFF — IT WAS TOO OBSCURE. FOR US, IT WAS JUST WET!
ML. WE BECAME BEST FRIENDS AT THAT TIME, AND IT’S FUNNY NOW TO THINK THAT WE KNEW OF EACH OTHER BEFORE WE KNEW EACH OTHER, AND THAT IT WAS THE FAMOUS RICK CASTRO WHO MADE THE CLICK HAPPEN. AND THERE WERE PEOPLE LIKE VAGINAL DAVIS AND THE KIPPER KIDS... I WAS MARRIED TO RICHARD NEWTON AT THE TIME.
DT. SO HOW DID YOU COME TO WORK TOGETHER? .
ML. WELL HE CAME INTO THE PICTURE BECAUSE I WAS WORKING WITH RICK CASTRO, WHO WAS IN LOVE WITH HIM. I WANTED TO DO MEN’S CLOTHES AND RICK CASTRO SAID I COULDN’T MAKE IT WITHOUT THIS GUY, SO RICK [OWENS] BECAME MY PATTERN MAKER. THOSE TWO CAME UP WITH A FANTASTIC COLLECTION AND THAT’S WHEN I SAW HOW TALENTED RICK WAS. AND THEN HE WANTED TO DO HIS OWN THING. IT TOOK US YEARS TO FIGURE IT OUT BECAUSE EVERYTHING WAS DIFFICULT AT THAT TIME. I THINK WHAT I BOUGHT INTO THE DESIGN STORY IN GENERAL, AS RICK IS SO TECHNICAL AND ANAL, WAS PERHAPS A LITTLE GYPSY-NESS. JUST LIKE RIPPING OFF A FEW DARTS OR THE HEM.
RO. I DON’T KNOW. I THINK YOU LIKE TO SAY THAT YOU BROUGHT SOME KIND OF DECONSTRUCTION. BUT I THINK YOU’RE MORE SOPHISTICATED THAN THAT, BECAUSE YOU WERE RAISED WITH SUCH AN EDUCATION THAT YOU HAVE THIS SENSE OF CHIC; YOU HAVE THIS REFINEMENT. YOU’RE ATTRACTED TO CHAOS BUT YOU LOVE THE DISCIPLINE OF ELEGANCE. WE ARE COMING FROM OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS. UNDERNEATH IT ALL, YOU KNOW WHAT HAS REAL VALUE AND YOU KNOW WHAT ELEGANCE IS, AND YOU LIKE FIGHTING WITH THAT. WHERE I CAME FROM WAS A LITTLE BIT CHEAPER SO I WAS ALWAYS LOOKING FOR THE GLAMOROUS AND EXOTIC. WHEREAS MICHÈLE WAS ALWAYS GLAMOROUS AND EXOTIC LOOKING MAYBE FOR SOMETHING A LITTLE CHEAPER!
DT. AND YOU MET SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE? .
ML. IT’S IN THE MIND AND IN THE VIBES. I THINK A GOOD EXAMPLE IS THAT WE COULD TALK FOREVER. WE WOULD TALK SO MUCH ABOUT CHRISTIAN BÉRARD WHEN I DIDN’T KNOW ANYONE ELSE WHO KNEW ABOUT HIM. AND WE HAVE THE SAME AESTHETIC. WHEN HE LIKES SOMETHING I SORT OF KNOW WHAT IT’S GOING TO LOOK LIKE.
RO. YES. OUR AESTHETIC HAS BEEN A REALLY DEFINING PART.
ML. I THINK THAT IS THE WAY THAT PEOPLE STAY TOGETHER, BECAUSE YOU CAN HAVE DIFFERENT POLITICAL OPINIONS OR MORAL OPINIONS.
RO. BUT IF YOU CAN’T LIVE WITH THE SAME VASE IN THE HOUSE, THEN IT’S OVER. IF YOU’VE SEEN THE BATTLES OVER VASES IN THIS HOUSE! [LAUGHS]
DT. RICK, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE AND TOUCH FASHION BEFORE YOU CAME TO LA? .
RO. OH, GOD NO! NOT EVEN IN LA. I MEAN I NEVER REALLY LOOKED AT FASHION THAT MUCH BEFORE. I JUST READ MAGAZINES. I DIDN’T REALLY HAVE THE NERVE TO GO TO BEVERLY HILLS AND TRY CLOTHES AT NEIMAN MARCUS — THAT WASN’T MY LIFE. SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE, IN A WAY, I WAS PRETTY INEXPERIENCED WHEN IT CAME TO FASHION. SO WHEN I WENT TO A SCHOOL WHERE THEY TAUGHT YOU HOW TO DO PATTERN MAKING, IT WAS ALL VERY MUCH FROM SCRATCH, WHICH WAS PROBABLY ALL FOR THE BEST.
DT. WERE YOU WORKING FOR MICHÈLE WHEN THEY MADE THE LAMY MEN VIDEO IN 1987 WITH TONY WARD IN THE BATHHOUSE? .
RO. YES, I WAS! THAT WAS WITH RICK CASTRO. I WAS THE PATTERNMAKER FOR ALL THOSE CLOTHES. AND THEY WERE ALL OUR FRIENDS.
DT. IT FEELS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD CAPSULE OF THAT TIME... .
RO. IT IS; IT IS. WE WERE LISTENING TO LAIBACH, AND ALL OF THOSE BOYS WERE PEOPLE WE HUNG OUT WITH. AND IT WAS SHOT BY MICHÈLE’S HUSBAND, RIGHT BEFORE SHE AND I GOT TOGETHER.
DT. SO, LET’S FAST-FORWARD TO YOUR SPRING ’14 WOMENSWEAR SHOW VICIOUS, WHERE AMERICAN SORORITY ‘STEPPERS’ WORE THE COLLECTION INSTEAD OF MODELS... .
RO. I DIDN’T EXPECT THIS MUCH REACTION. I THOUGHT WE WOULD HAVE A LITTLE BIT, BUT IT REALLY STRUCK A NERVE. IT WAS AN EXERCISE; I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE GREAT TO REALLY LOOK AT THE BODY THAT WE SELL TO. IT WAS LITERALLY THAT TECHNICAL. LIKE, “I NEED TO WORK WITH BOOBS. I DON’T REALLY CONSIDER BOOBS ENOUGH SO LET’S THINK ABOUT BOOBS.” SO IT WAS REALLY AN EXERCISE OF THAT. HOW DO I DRESS THAT KIND OF FIGURE IN A NON-CONDESCENDING WAY?
DT. HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT THE RESULT? .
RO. I LOVED IT. I WAS TICKLED TO DEATH! BUT THE FUNNIEST THING WAS THAT BEFORE I’D ONLY SEEN THESE GIRLS IN THEIR EXERCISE TIGHTS, WITH LIKE NO MAKE-UP, AND THEN I SAW THEM IN MY CLOTHES FOR THE SHOW. THEN WE HAD A PARTY WITH ALL OF THEM ON A BOAT AFTER THE SHOW AND THEN I WALKED IN AND I DIDN’T RECOGNIZE ANY OF THOSE GIRLS! THEY HAD PUT ALL THEIR MAKE-UP ON, TIGHT LITTLE DRESSES, HEELS AND STUFF, AND THEY WERE ADORABLE BUT I FELT A BIT DEFLATED. I WAS LIKE, “WOW — THIS IS HOW THEY REALLY WANNA LOOK.” THAT WAS AFFECTIVE. THEY LOOKED ADORABLE, HOT, SEXY! THEY KNEW HOW TO MAKE IT WORK WITH THEM, TO MAKE THEMSELVES ALL LUSCIOUS AND JUICY! I WAS THINKING, “I THOUGHT I DID A GOOD JOB BUT NOT SO MUCH...”
DT. AND WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO SHOW IT AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME? .
RO. I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT I ANALYZED A POLITICAL MOMENT, YOU KNOW LIKE REFERENCING WHAT WAS HAPPENING. BUT IT WAS REALLY JUST AN EMOTIONAL FEELING. YOU KNOW SOMETIMES I WONDER, “AM I SMARTER THAN I THINK?” I DON’T THINK SO, BUT I COULD BE!
DT. WHERE HAD YOU SEEN THE STEPPING GIRLS BEFORE? .
ML. IN NEW YORK CITY, BUT EVEN BEFORE, FROM THE TIME WHEN JEAN-PAUL GOUDE CREATED THE SHOW FOR THE BICENTENARY OF THE FRENCH REVOLUTION AT THE PLACE DE LA CONCORDE IN 1989.
RO. DID YOU SEE THAT? IT WAS REALLY SPECTACULAR.
ML. HE DID SOMETHING THAT WAS REALLY ABOUT CONTRAST. THERE WERE ALL THESE FABULOUS GIRLS LIKE FARIDA KHELFA. THIS WAS FOR ME THE BEST PARTY THAT EVER HAPPENED.
RO. HE HAD JESSYE NORMAN DRESSED BY AZZEDINE ALAÏA ON A PLATFORM AROUND THE OBELISK OF THE PLACE DE LA CONCORDE SINGING ‘LA MARSEILLAISE’!
ML. PRESIDENT BUSH SR. WAS THE PRESIDENT AT THAT TIME, AND WHEN HE SAW WHO’D BEEN CHOSEN TO REPRESENT THE UNITED STATES, YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN HIS FACE.
RO. WAS IT LIKE A NEW ORLEANS MARCHING BAND?
ML. IT WAS THESE STEPPER GIRLS BUT THEY HAD THE BAND IN FRONT. FOR AN ARMY PARADE THAT WAS QUITE GOOD!
DT. HOW OLD IS STEPPING CULTURE ACTUALLY? .
RO. IT HAS ITS ROOTS IN SLAVERY. THAT’S WHY IT’S SO AMERICAN AND WHY IT HAS THAT KIND OF GRAVITY AND THAT KIND OF EMOTIONAL RESONANCE. FOR INSTANCE, THE FINAL SEQUENCE WHEN THEY LINK ARMS AND THEY MARCH OUT, THIS COMES FROM RACIAL INTEGRATION IN THE COLLEGES IN THE STATES. THEY WOULD HAVE RIOTING OUTSIDE THE COLLEGES AND THAT IS HOW THE BLACK STUDENTS WOULD GET THROUGH THE CROWDS TO GET INTO THE SCHOOL. EVEN IF I DIDN’T TELL YOU THAT STORY, YOU CAN FEEL THAT KIND OF EMOTION AND EVERYBODY CAN RESPOND TO FEELINGS OF OSTRACISM. TODAY, I THINK THEY KIND OF REPRESENT GRACE UNDER PRESSURE; THEY’VE TAKEN ADVERSITY AND THEY’VE CREATED THIS KIND OF JOYOUS REACTION TO IT. IT PROTECTS THEM.
DT. IT REMINDED ME OF THE NEW ZEALAND MAORI CULTURE, THE HAKA DANCE. THAT WAS MY FIRST REACTION. DO MEN EVER DO IT? .
RO. I DON’T THINK THEY DO. IT’S NOT AS PREVALENT. THEY PLAY FOOTBALL!
ML. THOSE STEPPER GIRLS WERE THE LAST ONES TO FIGHT TO GET INTO COLLEGE BECAUSE EVEN THE BLACK COLLEGES WERE PREJUDICIAL TO WOMEN, SO THEY HAD TO FIGHT MORE THAN EVERYBODY ELSE.
DT. I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES THAT YOU’RE ATTRACTED TO OR THAT ARE ATTRACTED BY WHAT YOU DO. WHO ARE THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE REALLY A PART OF YOUR STORY? .
RO. WELL, THAT’S MICHÈLE. IF I HAD NEVER MET MICHÈLE, THIS HOUSE WOULD BE EMPTY, BECAUSE I WOULDN’T LET ANYBODY IN. MICHÈLE IS THE ONE THAT OPENS THE DOOR SO SHE IS THE ONE WHO FILTERS. SO HOW DO YOU CHOOSE HONEY? FIRST SHE SCANS THE GYM AND SEES WHO IS CUTE IN THE GYM!
ML. OH! PLEASE NO! [LAUGHS] FIRST THING YOU NEED TO KNOW IS THAT THIS GUY IS A CREATURE OF HABIT — HE HIRES PEOPLE AND THEY STAY THERE FOREVER. IN A WAY HE’S DOING THE SAME THINGS EXCEPT THAT PHYSICALLY, HE WANTS THEM OUT OF THE DOOR, BUT THEY HAVE TO BE ANSWERING IF HE WANTS THEM TO BE THERE. SO HE HAS A TEAM. EVEN WHEN HE THINKS IT’S NOT A TEAM, HE HAS A TEAM.
RO. DID I TELL YOU THAT I’M VERY SPOILT AND SELFISH? [LAUGHS]
ML. OF COURSE ON THE OTHER HAND I LIKE TEAMS. I LIKE PEOPLE. I SEE PEOPLE IN THE WAY THAT I WANT TO DO THINGS WITH THEM OR I KNOW THAT I CAN PUSH THEM. IT’S INSTINCT, YOU KNOW, AND I ALWAYS LIKE TO BE SEDUCED. I ALSO THINK THAT BECAUSE I AM HIS WIFE, THAT IT IS GOOD FOR HIS HEAD THAT I AM JUDGING.
DT. WHAT ABOUT THE DYNAMIC BETWEEN MASCULINE AND FEMININE ENERGY, WHICH IS A PART OF WHAT YOU CREATE AND MANIFEST AROUND YOU? .
RO. IT’S JUST A NATURAL EXPRESSION. I DON’T MAKE AN EFFORT TO CHALLENGE ANYTHING, AT LEAST NOT ANTAGONISTICALLY. IT’S AN EFFORT TO JUST KEEP THINGS AS PURE AS POSSIBLE.
RICK OWENS. I THINK IT WAS ABOUT ME, WHEN I STARTED. I DOUBT THAT IT WAS ABOUT ANYONE ELSE OR SOMEBODY ELSE. IT WAS ALWAYS ABOUT EXPRESSING ‘ME’. PROBABLY... YOU SHOULD KNOW I’M VERY SELFISH! I’M THE FIRST TO ADMIT IT.
DT. HOW DID YOU DRESS BEFORE YOU MADE YOUR OWN CLOTHES? .
RO. IN ARMY SURPLUS CLOTHES, WHICH I DYED IN BLACK. THERE WERE ALL THESE NEW WAVE THINGS GOING ON IN LOS ANGELES FASHION. YOUNG FASHION WAS VERY BIG AND THRIFT STORES WERE VERY BIG SO IT WAS VERY EASY TO FIND BLACK STUFF EVERYWHERE.
DT. AND HOW DID YOU BOTH END UP IN LA? .
RO. I MOVED FROM PORTERVILLE, WHICH IS A SMALL AGRICULTURAL TOWN ABOUT TWO HOURS AWAY FROM LA. MICHÈLE LAMY. I CAME TO LA FROM NEW YORK IN ’79, NEVER HAVING BEEN THERE. I JUST KNEW I WANTED TO MOVE THERE. I WAS DOING ADVERTISING AND EDITORIAL FOR DIFFERENT MAGAZINES, CALLED SLASH, STUFF AND WET.
DT. DO YOU STILL HAVE THEM? .
RO. NO, I DON’T HAVE ANY OF THEM. THERE WERE KIND OF PUNK ROCK FREE ZINES, BUT THEY WERE A LITTLE BIT FANCIER BECAUSE THEY DID ADVERTISING FOR SOME OF THE FANCY PLACES IN TOWN, SO THEY WERE VERY COOL. THEY WERE LIKE INTERVIEW MAGAZINE BUT AT THE BEGINNING.
ML. I WAS PART OF THIS THING, AND SO BEFORE WE KNEW EACH OTHER, HE KNEW ABOUT ME.
RO. WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL, I WOULD GO TO VISALIA, WHICH WAS A COOL TOWN CLOSE TO OUR TOWN, AND I’D BUY WET MAGAZINE AND I SAW ARTICLES AND PICTURES OF MICHÈLE.
ML. I WAS EVEN WRITING A LITTLE BIT FOR STUFF !
RO. WE DIDN’T GET STUFF. WE WEREN’T COOL ENOUGH FOR STUFF — IT WAS TOO OBSCURE. FOR US, IT WAS JUST WET!
ML. WE BECAME BEST FRIENDS AT THAT TIME, AND IT’S FUNNY NOW TO THINK THAT WE KNEW OF EACH OTHER BEFORE WE KNEW EACH OTHER, AND THAT IT WAS THE FAMOUS RICK CASTRO WHO MADE THE CLICK HAPPEN. AND THERE WERE PEOPLE LIKE VAGINAL DAVIS AND THE KIPPER KIDS... I WAS MARRIED TO RICHARD NEWTON AT THE TIME.
DT. SO HOW DID YOU COME TO WORK TOGETHER? .
ML. WELL HE CAME INTO THE PICTURE BECAUSE I WAS WORKING WITH RICK CASTRO, WHO WAS IN LOVE WITH HIM. I WANTED TO DO MEN’S CLOTHES AND RICK CASTRO SAID I COULDN’T MAKE IT WITHOUT THIS GUY, SO RICK [OWENS] BECAME MY PATTERN MAKER. THOSE TWO CAME UP WITH A FANTASTIC COLLECTION AND THAT’S WHEN I SAW HOW TALENTED RICK WAS. AND THEN HE WANTED TO DO HIS OWN THING. IT TOOK US YEARS TO FIGURE IT OUT BECAUSE EVERYTHING WAS DIFFICULT AT THAT TIME. I THINK WHAT I BOUGHT INTO THE DESIGN STORY IN GENERAL, AS RICK IS SO TECHNICAL AND ANAL, WAS PERHAPS A LITTLE GYPSY-NESS. JUST LIKE RIPPING OFF A FEW DARTS OR THE HEM.
RO. I DON’T KNOW. I THINK YOU LIKE TO SAY THAT YOU BROUGHT SOME KIND OF DECONSTRUCTION. BUT I THINK YOU’RE MORE SOPHISTICATED THAN THAT, BECAUSE YOU WERE RAISED WITH SUCH AN EDUCATION THAT YOU HAVE THIS SENSE OF CHIC; YOU HAVE THIS REFINEMENT. YOU’RE ATTRACTED TO CHAOS BUT YOU LOVE THE DISCIPLINE OF ELEGANCE. WE ARE COMING FROM OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS. UNDERNEATH IT ALL, YOU KNOW WHAT HAS REAL VALUE AND YOU KNOW WHAT ELEGANCE IS, AND YOU LIKE FIGHTING WITH THAT. WHERE I CAME FROM WAS A LITTLE BIT CHEAPER SO I WAS ALWAYS LOOKING FOR THE GLAMOROUS AND EXOTIC. WHEREAS MICHÈLE WAS ALWAYS GLAMOROUS AND EXOTIC LOOKING MAYBE FOR SOMETHING A LITTLE CHEAPER!
DT. AND YOU MET SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE? .
ML. IT’S IN THE MIND AND IN THE VIBES. I THINK A GOOD EXAMPLE IS THAT WE COULD TALK FOREVER. WE WOULD TALK SO MUCH ABOUT CHRISTIAN BÉRARD WHEN I DIDN’T KNOW ANYONE ELSE WHO KNEW ABOUT HIM. AND WE HAVE THE SAME AESTHETIC. WHEN HE LIKES SOMETHING I SORT OF KNOW WHAT IT’S GOING TO LOOK LIKE.
RO. YES. OUR AESTHETIC HAS BEEN A REALLY DEFINING PART.
ML. I THINK THAT IS THE WAY THAT PEOPLE STAY TOGETHER, BECAUSE YOU CAN HAVE DIFFERENT POLITICAL OPINIONS OR MORAL OPINIONS.
RO. BUT IF YOU CAN’T LIVE WITH THE SAME VASE IN THE HOUSE, THEN IT’S OVER. IF YOU’VE SEEN THE BATTLES OVER VASES IN THIS HOUSE! [LAUGHS]
DT. RICK, WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE AND TOUCH FASHION BEFORE YOU CAME TO LA? .
RO. OH, GOD NO! NOT EVEN IN LA. I MEAN I NEVER REALLY LOOKED AT FASHION THAT MUCH BEFORE. I JUST READ MAGAZINES. I DIDN’T REALLY HAVE THE NERVE TO GO TO BEVERLY HILLS AND TRY CLOTHES AT NEIMAN MARCUS — THAT WASN’T MY LIFE. SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE, IN A WAY, I WAS PRETTY INEXPERIENCED WHEN IT CAME TO FASHION. SO WHEN I WENT TO A SCHOOL WHERE THEY TAUGHT YOU HOW TO DO PATTERN MAKING, IT WAS ALL VERY MUCH FROM SCRATCH, WHICH WAS PROBABLY ALL FOR THE BEST.
DT. WERE YOU WORKING FOR MICHÈLE WHEN THEY MADE THE LAMY MEN VIDEO IN 1987 WITH TONY WARD IN THE BATHHOUSE? .
RO. YES, I WAS! THAT WAS WITH RICK CASTRO. I WAS THE PATTERNMAKER FOR ALL THOSE CLOTHES. AND THEY WERE ALL OUR FRIENDS.
DT. IT FEELS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD CAPSULE OF THAT TIME... .
RO. IT IS; IT IS. WE WERE LISTENING TO LAIBACH, AND ALL OF THOSE BOYS WERE PEOPLE WE HUNG OUT WITH. AND IT WAS SHOT BY MICHÈLE’S HUSBAND, RIGHT BEFORE SHE AND I GOT TOGETHER.
DT. SO, LET’S FAST-FORWARD TO YOUR SPRING ’14 WOMENSWEAR SHOW VICIOUS, WHERE AMERICAN SORORITY ‘STEPPERS’ WORE THE COLLECTION INSTEAD OF MODELS... .
RO. I DIDN’T EXPECT THIS MUCH REACTION. I THOUGHT WE WOULD HAVE A LITTLE BIT, BUT IT REALLY STRUCK A NERVE. IT WAS AN EXERCISE; I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE GREAT TO REALLY LOOK AT THE BODY THAT WE SELL TO. IT WAS LITERALLY THAT TECHNICAL. LIKE, “I NEED TO WORK WITH BOOBS. I DON’T REALLY CONSIDER BOOBS ENOUGH SO LET’S THINK ABOUT BOOBS.” SO IT WAS REALLY AN EXERCISE OF THAT. HOW DO I DRESS THAT KIND OF FIGURE IN A NON-CONDESCENDING WAY?
DT. HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT THE RESULT? .
RO. I LOVED IT. I WAS TICKLED TO DEATH! BUT THE FUNNIEST THING WAS THAT BEFORE I’D ONLY SEEN THESE GIRLS IN THEIR EXERCISE TIGHTS, WITH LIKE NO MAKE-UP, AND THEN I SAW THEM IN MY CLOTHES FOR THE SHOW. THEN WE HAD A PARTY WITH ALL OF THEM ON A BOAT AFTER THE SHOW AND THEN I WALKED IN AND I DIDN’T RECOGNIZE ANY OF THOSE GIRLS! THEY HAD PUT ALL THEIR MAKE-UP ON, TIGHT LITTLE DRESSES, HEELS AND STUFF, AND THEY WERE ADORABLE BUT I FELT A BIT DEFLATED. I WAS LIKE, “WOW — THIS IS HOW THEY REALLY WANNA LOOK.” THAT WAS AFFECTIVE. THEY LOOKED ADORABLE, HOT, SEXY! THEY KNEW HOW TO MAKE IT WORK WITH THEM, TO MAKE THEMSELVES ALL LUSCIOUS AND JUICY! I WAS THINKING, “I THOUGHT I DID A GOOD JOB BUT NOT SO MUCH...”
DT. AND WHY DID YOU DECIDE TO SHOW IT AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME? .
RO. I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT I ANALYZED A POLITICAL MOMENT, YOU KNOW LIKE REFERENCING WHAT WAS HAPPENING. BUT IT WAS REALLY JUST AN EMOTIONAL FEELING. YOU KNOW SOMETIMES I WONDER, “AM I SMARTER THAN I THINK?” I DON’T THINK SO, BUT I COULD BE!
DT. WHERE HAD YOU SEEN THE STEPPING GIRLS BEFORE? .
ML. IN NEW YORK CITY, BUT EVEN BEFORE, FROM THE TIME WHEN JEAN-PAUL GOUDE CREATED THE SHOW FOR THE BICENTENARY OF THE FRENCH REVOLUTION AT THE PLACE DE LA CONCORDE IN 1989.
RO. DID YOU SEE THAT? IT WAS REALLY SPECTACULAR.
ML. HE DID SOMETHING THAT WAS REALLY ABOUT CONTRAST. THERE WERE ALL THESE FABULOUS GIRLS LIKE FARIDA KHELFA. THIS WAS FOR ME THE BEST PARTY THAT EVER HAPPENED.
RO. HE HAD JESSYE NORMAN DRESSED BY AZZEDINE ALAÏA ON A PLATFORM AROUND THE OBELISK OF THE PLACE DE LA CONCORDE SINGING ‘LA MARSEILLAISE’!
ML. PRESIDENT BUSH SR. WAS THE PRESIDENT AT THAT TIME, AND WHEN HE SAW WHO’D BEEN CHOSEN TO REPRESENT THE UNITED STATES, YOU SHOULD HAVE SEEN HIS FACE.
RO. WAS IT LIKE A NEW ORLEANS MARCHING BAND?
ML. IT WAS THESE STEPPER GIRLS BUT THEY HAD THE BAND IN FRONT. FOR AN ARMY PARADE THAT WAS QUITE GOOD!
DT. HOW OLD IS STEPPING CULTURE ACTUALLY? .
RO. IT HAS ITS ROOTS IN SLAVERY. THAT’S WHY IT’S SO AMERICAN AND WHY IT HAS THAT KIND OF GRAVITY AND THAT KIND OF EMOTIONAL RESONANCE. FOR INSTANCE, THE FINAL SEQUENCE WHEN THEY LINK ARMS AND THEY MARCH OUT, THIS COMES FROM RACIAL INTEGRATION IN THE COLLEGES IN THE STATES. THEY WOULD HAVE RIOTING OUTSIDE THE COLLEGES AND THAT IS HOW THE BLACK STUDENTS WOULD GET THROUGH THE CROWDS TO GET INTO THE SCHOOL. EVEN IF I DIDN’T TELL YOU THAT STORY, YOU CAN FEEL THAT KIND OF EMOTION AND EVERYBODY CAN RESPOND TO FEELINGS OF OSTRACISM. TODAY, I THINK THEY KIND OF REPRESENT GRACE UNDER PRESSURE; THEY’VE TAKEN ADVERSITY AND THEY’VE CREATED THIS KIND OF JOYOUS REACTION TO IT. IT PROTECTS THEM.
DT. IT REMINDED ME OF THE NEW ZEALAND MAORI CULTURE, THE HAKA DANCE. THAT WAS MY FIRST REACTION. DO MEN EVER DO IT? .
RO. I DON’T THINK THEY DO. IT’S NOT AS PREVALENT. THEY PLAY FOOTBALL!
ML. THOSE STEPPER GIRLS WERE THE LAST ONES TO FIGHT TO GET INTO COLLEGE BECAUSE EVEN THE BLACK COLLEGES WERE PREJUDICIAL TO WOMEN, SO THEY HAD TO FIGHT MORE THAN EVERYBODY ELSE.
DT. I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE DIFFERENT PERSONALITIES THAT YOU’RE ATTRACTED TO OR THAT ARE ATTRACTED BY WHAT YOU DO. WHO ARE THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE REALLY A PART OF YOUR STORY? .
RO. WELL, THAT’S MICHÈLE. IF I HAD NEVER MET MICHÈLE, THIS HOUSE WOULD BE EMPTY, BECAUSE I WOULDN’T LET ANYBODY IN. MICHÈLE IS THE ONE THAT OPENS THE DOOR SO SHE IS THE ONE WHO FILTERS. SO HOW DO YOU CHOOSE HONEY? FIRST SHE SCANS THE GYM AND SEES WHO IS CUTE IN THE GYM!
ML. OH! PLEASE NO! [LAUGHS] FIRST THING YOU NEED TO KNOW IS THAT THIS GUY IS A CREATURE OF HABIT — HE HIRES PEOPLE AND THEY STAY THERE FOREVER. IN A WAY HE’S DOING THE SAME THINGS EXCEPT THAT PHYSICALLY, HE WANTS THEM OUT OF THE DOOR, BUT THEY HAVE TO BE ANSWERING IF HE WANTS THEM TO BE THERE. SO HE HAS A TEAM. EVEN WHEN HE THINKS IT’S NOT A TEAM, HE HAS A TEAM.
RO. DID I TELL YOU THAT I’M VERY SPOILT AND SELFISH? [LAUGHS]
ML. OF COURSE ON THE OTHER HAND I LIKE TEAMS. I LIKE PEOPLE. I SEE PEOPLE IN THE WAY THAT I WANT TO DO THINGS WITH THEM OR I KNOW THAT I CAN PUSH THEM. IT’S INSTINCT, YOU KNOW, AND I ALWAYS LIKE TO BE SEDUCED. I ALSO THINK THAT BECAUSE I AM HIS WIFE, THAT IT IS GOOD FOR HIS HEAD THAT I AM JUDGING.
DT. WHAT ABOUT THE DYNAMIC BETWEEN MASCULINE AND FEMININE ENERGY, WHICH IS A PART OF WHAT YOU CREATE AND MANIFEST AROUND YOU? .
RO. IT’S JUST A NATURAL EXPRESSION. I DON’T MAKE AN EFFORT TO CHALLENGE ANYTHING, AT LEAST NOT ANTAGONISTICALLY. IT’S AN EFFORT TO JUST KEEP THINGS AS PURE AS POSSIBLE.
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